I'm getting the feeling that in a few years the internet will be so polluted, dysfunctional, and surveillance-ridden that it becomes uncool and people (except boomers, not sure about Gen Z) will start turning to experiences in real life more. Eventually the perception will be that the internet is like being hunched over slot machines at the casino, and a place for old people to be scammed, lied to, and yell at each other. The real and tangible becomes valuable when this technology becomes so burnt out, toxic, and lame that any alternative, especially those less ephemeral or public, seem more enjoyable.
The internet and AI just may be cultural amplifiers Neither of these technologies mediate conflict, instead each accelerates it.
200 to 300 years ago Hobbes and Hume seemed to agree on the assumption that our reason serves as a scout for our passions. Along with such passion/emotion in 2025 are emotional impulses continually stoked by the internet that appears not simply to be satisfied with winning but also seems quite comfortable with attempted destruction of opponents.
As the brilliant Nazi opportunist Carl Schmitt recognized in the 1920s politics has little to do with the state and much more to do with the intensity of conflict between designated "friends and enemies."
And I also am a believer that fascism, including its Nazi variety, was the first ideology to emerge in the era of mass communication—radio in particular—with all the politics that this particular technology implied. Communism on the other hand predates radio tech.
What I’ve always considered was the big innovation among communists was the organizing methods, more than the ideology. Whether these methods can counter the mass communication of fascist ideology remains to be seen, but good on you for choosing to try something different. On the docks, regular working folks would remind the awkward sectarian leftists that the root word of socialism is “social”.
Sometimes i believe Audre Lorde: “For the master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change;" and sometimes Monika Berberich (RAF): "There's no weapon of the enemy's that you cannot turn against them."
i think i told you in person nearly nine years ago that i wished the internet had already existed for about 200 years so all the (then) fumbling stupidity of it all could be ironed out. Turns out Fisher's essay - which I had never read until now - is a much much more condensed and focused version of what i meant
Real people, real books, real disagreements, real poems, real inspirations, real histories, real things happening, observed firsthand - they're all still there. As ever, thanks!
I completely understand your sentiment and support your effort to make something more analog happen. I do have to say that, were it not for evil manipulative social media, I would never in a million years have happened on your podcast and your writings. So have as many meetings in NYC as you can, and I’ll even try to get to a few. But please think about not stopping, and figuring out how to use the evil thing. Because the evil is way beyond just the fucking internet. NYC, by the way, just might contain the squirming black heart of all that is evil on the planet. Just saying. Watch your back(s). I know I will.
There was. I avoided it for the first few years until 2010 or so when I quit reporting and editing for somebody else and started a newspaper. I’m still slow and reticent.
Good essay. Once again that Russian mind focusing a spotlight on what everybody else is either blind to or prefers to ignore: the absolute triviality and mindless self-consumption of "left" political discourse in the US.
However I don't think it's the tech. In fact I know it's not the tech. When you look at how Telegram or Weibo users interact it's totally different from sophomore American shitposting. The root cause of the destructive political discourse is the US culture of constant "competitive" altercation, the unending skirmishing that goes on in schools and later in the workplace, by a population that has been well trained to see one another as the enemy.
This is important nuance. The tech is mainly just an accelerant and it accelerates everything, not just one thing. All of the same crap was happening before social media, unless talk radio and cable news shows are also "tech". Being "trained to see one another as the enemy" won't go away by taking the "tech" away.
> The root cause of the destructive political discourse is the US culture of constant "competitive" altercation,
It's the lack of a unified left, no? It feels like people are more concerned with scoring points online than putting aside differences to accomplish a goal
I've long argued that we need to get back to the analogue left that built the communist and Labour movements in the 1930s (without the mistakes) and form chapters in every town with printing presses producing leaflets and newsletters
Thanks for reminding me of the original Vampire Castle essay. I reread it. Its focus on class is what I feel is so important. I often feel like the left is dominated by a very snobby upper class group of people who seem to have spent most of their adult life in university or commenting on Twitter. This is not my background though I do spend much of my day to day life with ivy leaguers, journalists and gov bureaucrats and the online discourse from leftists is so far outside what I understand or anyone around me would understand. It’s inscrutable and alienating and would be to anyone I know let alone my extended immigrant family in California or just anyone from not a specific background. Maybe it’s because I’m in my 50s? How does anyone relate to this group’s message? Also, I hate bureaucracy as much as anyone and there is indeed a Washington blob who is elitist but there is no way I would trust any of these leftist socialists with running a government. It’s actually hard and complicated.
To add to this, everyone on the left of the political spectrum seems to want to constantly prove how smart they are, at least online. The right doesn’t do this and unfortunately that is why the right will continue to do well. I have so many guy friends who agree with my politics which is just to simply retain or expand the social safety net, promote basic anti-trust etc but they have all migrated to the right and listening to Tucker Carlson. I’ve kind of lost hope.
I have family/friends that took a similar arc - I've spent an incredible amount of time pondering how in the fuck they could go from where they started to end up where they are and most of the answers either reflect values I don't really want in my friends unfortunately, and just pure brainwashing, which does inspire compassion from me. Just sayin, I hear you and it sucks.
"constantly prove how smart they are" umm, I'm just gonna mention Daily Wire and PragerU - all those chuds do is attempt to triangulate how smart they are compared to the dumb libs
I don’t even know what PragerU is, I am clueless! And I’ve just become a big time hater because it seems like no one seems to have any values beyond just making sure they and their immediate family is taken care of. Like I really don’t believe that anyone around me cares about immigrants and deportations unless it affects them personally. I do believe people are good at heart when they are thrown into working on a project together. People come together. Right now everyone seems to feel aggrieved and like someone is taking from them, even the rich. Just seems like there has to be some cataclysmic event that needs to happen to change anything which is scary.
COVID was sort of cataclysmic, regardless of whether it needed to be or not there is some insight there about what cataclysmic event it might take to change anything
It was though it was an event that forced everyone inside and made everyone more insular and paranoid. I guess I think it would have to be something on par with a war from outside. But I absolutely don’t want that. I have a teenage son and I don’t want him facing that. It is heartening to see he and his friends not seem to exhibit any of the anger that I see in adults. Maybe there is hope.
I agree but I believe that an effective mass politics can & will sublate these counter-insurgency technologies of weaponized hyper-personalization, make them irrelevant.
Properly theorizing them as you are doing instead of seeking to merely instrumentalize as most others are doing is a first step in that process of sublation. They must be confronted…
I'm getting the feeling that in a few years the internet will be so polluted, dysfunctional, and surveillance-ridden that it becomes uncool and people (except boomers, not sure about Gen Z) will start turning to experiences in real life more. Eventually the perception will be that the internet is like being hunched over slot machines at the casino, and a place for old people to be scammed, lied to, and yell at each other. The real and tangible becomes valuable when this technology becomes so burnt out, toxic, and lame that any alternative, especially those less ephemeral or public, seem more enjoyable.
Inshallah
I hope you’re right. I fear we’ll just move on to the next toxic addiction by then.
The internet and AI just may be cultural amplifiers Neither of these technologies mediate conflict, instead each accelerates it.
200 to 300 years ago Hobbes and Hume seemed to agree on the assumption that our reason serves as a scout for our passions. Along with such passion/emotion in 2025 are emotional impulses continually stoked by the internet that appears not simply to be satisfied with winning but also seems quite comfortable with attempted destruction of opponents.
As the brilliant Nazi opportunist Carl Schmitt recognized in the 1920s politics has little to do with the state and much more to do with the intensity of conflict between designated "friends and enemies."
And I also am a believer that fascism, including its Nazi variety, was the first ideology to emerge in the era of mass communication—radio in particular—with all the politics that this particular technology implied. Communism on the other hand predates radio tech.
What I’ve always considered was the big innovation among communists was the organizing methods, more than the ideology. Whether these methods can counter the mass communication of fascist ideology remains to be seen, but good on you for choosing to try something different. On the docks, regular working folks would remind the awkward sectarian leftists that the root word of socialism is “social”.
Sometimes i believe Audre Lorde: “For the master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change;" and sometimes Monika Berberich (RAF): "There's no weapon of the enemy's that you cannot turn against them."
i think i told you in person nearly nine years ago that i wished the internet had already existed for about 200 years so all the (then) fumbling stupidity of it all could be ironed out. Turns out Fisher's essay - which I had never read until now - is a much much more condensed and focused version of what i meant
Real people, real books, real disagreements, real poems, real inspirations, real histories, real things happening, observed firsthand - they're all still there. As ever, thanks!
I absolutely feel that social media just needs to be shut down.
I completely understand your sentiment and support your effort to make something more analog happen. I do have to say that, were it not for evil manipulative social media, I would never in a million years have happened on your podcast and your writings. So have as many meetings in NYC as you can, and I’ll even try to get to a few. But please think about not stopping, and figuring out how to use the evil thing. Because the evil is way beyond just the fucking internet. NYC, by the way, just might contain the squirming black heart of all that is evil on the planet. Just saying. Watch your back(s). I know I will.
Love you guys …
Yeah but you would have found us through a forum or a mailing list or listserv or whatever. There was life before social media!
Are you against the technology behind the internet entirely, or just contemporary social media?
Would you be ok with a technology similar to the internet pre-facebook, twitter....something like the internet but not driven by capitalism?
I can't edit a comment (I think), but it seems like you sort of answered the question in another post.
There was. I avoided it for the first few years until 2010 or so when I quit reporting and editing for somebody else and started a newspaper. I’m still slow and reticent.
Good essay. Once again that Russian mind focusing a spotlight on what everybody else is either blind to or prefers to ignore: the absolute triviality and mindless self-consumption of "left" political discourse in the US.
However I don't think it's the tech. In fact I know it's not the tech. When you look at how Telegram or Weibo users interact it's totally different from sophomore American shitposting. The root cause of the destructive political discourse is the US culture of constant "competitive" altercation, the unending skirmishing that goes on in schools and later in the workplace, by a population that has been well trained to see one another as the enemy.
This is important nuance. The tech is mainly just an accelerant and it accelerates everything, not just one thing. All of the same crap was happening before social media, unless talk radio and cable news shows are also "tech". Being "trained to see one another as the enemy" won't go away by taking the "tech" away.
> The root cause of the destructive political discourse is the US culture of constant "competitive" altercation,
It's the lack of a unified left, no? It feels like people are more concerned with scoring points online than putting aside differences to accomplish a goal
Accomplishing a common goal is alien to US liberal culture. If such a praxis still survives in the US it's among MAGAers.
I've always found conservatives more capable of working together towards something than liberals in the US.
It's worse than that...
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/06/your-smartphone-is-a-parasite-according-to-evolution.html
I've long argued that we need to get back to the analogue left that built the communist and Labour movements in the 1930s (without the mistakes) and form chapters in every town with printing presses producing leaflets and newsletters
thanks for bringing back mark fisher.....read vampire castle a while back and it's great
Thanks for reminding me of the original Vampire Castle essay. I reread it. Its focus on class is what I feel is so important. I often feel like the left is dominated by a very snobby upper class group of people who seem to have spent most of their adult life in university or commenting on Twitter. This is not my background though I do spend much of my day to day life with ivy leaguers, journalists and gov bureaucrats and the online discourse from leftists is so far outside what I understand or anyone around me would understand. It’s inscrutable and alienating and would be to anyone I know let alone my extended immigrant family in California or just anyone from not a specific background. Maybe it’s because I’m in my 50s? How does anyone relate to this group’s message? Also, I hate bureaucracy as much as anyone and there is indeed a Washington blob who is elitist but there is no way I would trust any of these leftist socialists with running a government. It’s actually hard and complicated.
To add to this, everyone on the left of the political spectrum seems to want to constantly prove how smart they are, at least online. The right doesn’t do this and unfortunately that is why the right will continue to do well. I have so many guy friends who agree with my politics which is just to simply retain or expand the social safety net, promote basic anti-trust etc but they have all migrated to the right and listening to Tucker Carlson. I’ve kind of lost hope.
I have family/friends that took a similar arc - I've spent an incredible amount of time pondering how in the fuck they could go from where they started to end up where they are and most of the answers either reflect values I don't really want in my friends unfortunately, and just pure brainwashing, which does inspire compassion from me. Just sayin, I hear you and it sucks.
"constantly prove how smart they are" umm, I'm just gonna mention Daily Wire and PragerU - all those chuds do is attempt to triangulate how smart they are compared to the dumb libs
I don’t even know what PragerU is, I am clueless! And I’ve just become a big time hater because it seems like no one seems to have any values beyond just making sure they and their immediate family is taken care of. Like I really don’t believe that anyone around me cares about immigrants and deportations unless it affects them personally. I do believe people are good at heart when they are thrown into working on a project together. People come together. Right now everyone seems to feel aggrieved and like someone is taking from them, even the rich. Just seems like there has to be some cataclysmic event that needs to happen to change anything which is scary.
COVID was sort of cataclysmic, regardless of whether it needed to be or not there is some insight there about what cataclysmic event it might take to change anything
It was though it was an event that forced everyone inside and made everyone more insular and paranoid. I guess I think it would have to be something on par with a war from outside. But I absolutely don’t want that. I have a teenage son and I don’t want him facing that. It is heartening to see he and his friends not seem to exhibit any of the anger that I see in adults. Maybe there is hope.
All right, but where are today's Lenin, Trotsky and even old Peter Kropotkin in this Vampire Castle?
I think there's to many of them arguing about intellectual points only they understand no ones keeping it short and simple to win the working class
I agree but I believe that an effective mass politics can & will sublate these counter-insurgency technologies of weaponized hyper-personalization, make them irrelevant.
Properly theorizing them as you are doing instead of seeking to merely instrumentalize as most others are doing is a first step in that process of sublation. They must be confronted…
Good point and excellent read.
And thank you Mark Fisher for being perceptive.