An alternative framing is that America keeping Europe in an antagonistic position towards Russia keeps Europe out of China. In a better world there'd be a high speed train route all the way from Europe to Beijing by now
I agree completely with your analysis, but the European project also evolves in relations to the events in the latest years. In the early 2022, the Europeans and NATO believed that Russia would disintegrate quickly and the Ukrainians would be able to win the war. Or, at least that the Ukrainians would seriously weaken the Russians. The opposite has happened and now the Europeans feel they have to rearm i order to be a "serious" player, but they do not really have a military-industrial complex of any size, so they have to buy most of the weapons from the US. Many of the crucial parts for submarines (Germany and France), airplanes (France and Sweden) or frigates (Britain) are made in the US or based on US patents. In order to avoid a split in the EU they now want to use the Bismarckian strategy of "Blood and Iron" to unite the union, but it is the Ukrainians who shed their blood and the US providing the iron.
Yes, the Western animosity towards Russian pre-dates the cold war by centuries and did not really abate with the collapse of Soviet communism. Europe has neither the will, economic or industrial base to support Ukraine's war effort in any meaningful way, yet encourages the people of Ukraine to lose territory and people in a futile conflict. I don't know if it's surprising or not, but virtually all of the people I know who are liberal or claim to be left, support this insane policy.
The animosity you refer to comes from the British Empire. The EU is not Europe. There are many countries with very different histories, family languages. Some have strong historical/cultural links, more or less conflictual. What are the links between, let's say, Portugal and Estonia?
War in Ukraine is a war for business, Blackrock and Co, even if one can't dismiss some historical/cultural features which are manipulated by Fink, Rotschild, and other psychopaths.
There is a unified European entity that could exist properly and prosperously, but it is in the hands of people you wouldn't allow in charge of an artificial plant.
I agree with your analysis but I would put it in simpler terms. Neoliberalism is a slow poison and Europe (and the US) are turning to fascist militarism as a means to escape this slow death. This will succeed, but will result in the more rapid death of mutually-assured destruction through high-tech military conflict.
I remember irish newspapers printing stories of greek hairdressers retiring when they were 45 or some crap like that. It was awful. The EU is ok shaky ground and its not russians fault.
This may be so simple as to sound stupid, but maybe a lot of people in the EU don't trust that Putin fella any more in 2025. Nor do they trust Trump. Maybe that's what keeping the European project alive - learning to fend for themselves. (I wish _my_ leaders had the capacity.)
The (primarily Zionist or pro-Zionist) oligarch owned mainstream media in the US and EU are intent on convincing the gullible populations that Russian hordes (in this case "Evil Putler") are simultaneously willing and capable to both overrun Europe but also unable to gain any significant territory in Ukraine.
Tom: do try to keep up. We're talking about European countries next door to Russia, some with a big historical memory of being fully or partially annexed by Russia's predecessor state, the USSR. Trump's foolishness and authoritarianism, while detestable, is an ocean away from them. Putin's Russia is not.
And there's something tragicomic and memorable about how many people under Putin die by falling out of windows. Maybe folk in Finland and Estonia give a bigger damn about that than about Charlie Kirk.
the idea that Russia would "invade"it's European neighboring countries is ludicrous. Russia has a big demographic problem. It has the largest land ownership on earth, thus larger border to control with a limited amount of manpower... It's population has been turned into materialist consumers thus lacking the ideological motivation for conquest...
Please, start thinking with these notions... Putin is not Sauron and the 5th column is very powerful...
Seems that it's you who wasn't keeping up in the beginning. The modern Russian Federation is not the USSR. It wasn't formed explicitly in an agreement with the western powers who were the signatories to any agreements and treaties that GRANTED the USSR de-facto control over the former Soviet bloc/Warsaw Pact countries. Putin, as much as you may hate or despise him does NOT have ambitions of expanding the Russian Federation into any European countries, including Ukraine, which they only invaded in response to ~7yrs of war being waged on those provinces in the east by the US/NATO backed post-coup government(s) of Ukraine in Kyiv. Zelensky was elected on a peace platform and once in office he was forced by powerful right-wing anti-Russia factions, including likely CIA assets, to continue the siege on those oblasts, whose pleas for Russian intervention were actually ignored by Putin's government for those ~7yrs. Putin's government came forward with numerous proposals for a resolution to this conflict that entailed pre-2022 Ukraine keeping full territorial integrity, minus Crimea whose people had unanimously voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia. That was the non-starter for the US and UK puppet masters intent on eventual war with or regime change in Russia (to be followed by the usual austerity and privatization with profits and interests on new debt to flow into 'western' hands), so they rebuffed the Russians more than once BEFORE the "SMO" began and then again in the April 2022 timeframe.
Regardless of what you say, folk in the EU don't trust that Putin fella any more in 2025. For example, Sweden - despite having a tradition of neutrality that precedes WWII - decided to join NATO after Russia invaded Ukraine.
Maybe it is as simple as countries who invade other countries are bad. Ever considered that, Tom?
"And there's something tragicomic and memorable about how many people under Putin die by falling out of windows. Maybe folk in Finland and Estonia give a bigger damn about that than about Charlie Kirk."
There are plenty of conspiracy theories in Russia and about those deaths too, is my point. With a little bit of, you know, *actual* research, I could find counterstories to probably half or 2/3 of those Wikipedia entries for "suspicious deaths" - As I noted previously, have you seen the Skripals lately? They were also among the list of purported Putin assassination targets. Or off the top of my head, how about recent developments in the case of Roman Protasevich or any credible allegations that Navalny was murdered in prison? How familiar are you with the Magnitsky case?
Tom, let's be realistic at that point. Russia is not a paradise; those who happen to be a thorn can have fateful destiny. Same in France or most countries.
it is not at all about "trust" in Putin... the interest of all nations in bondage into the EU is to have good relation with Moscow. The interest of Russians is to have good business relations with each nation state in the European continent.
Maybe here is an irrational element in that war, that is the revenge of crazy Zionists of Ukrainian/Russian/Baltic origin...
Bugey, my good sir: as some who has had friends and relatives live in the EU, I instinctively do not trust the opinion of anyone who uses the sentence "in bondage into the EU" with a straight face.
The looters who "invested" in pre-war Ukraine are also among the people most dedicated to prolonging this war and recouping some of their money over the long term. With the country almost completely wrecked and/or reliant on "western" money now, it won't even matter if some of those investments fall into newly Russian controlled territory. The remaining Ukrainian population (and those who will be born later) are a sufficiently lucrative "market" for various privatization rape-and-pillage schemes including austerity and debt bondage for one and for all.
An alternative framing is that America keeping Europe in an antagonistic position towards Russia keeps Europe out of China. In a better world there'd be a high speed train route all the way from Europe to Beijing by now
lots of reasons and none of them the ones the EU likes to use!
Yasha, you might be interested in this https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/baudrillards-revenge/
I agree completely with your analysis, but the European project also evolves in relations to the events in the latest years. In the early 2022, the Europeans and NATO believed that Russia would disintegrate quickly and the Ukrainians would be able to win the war. Or, at least that the Ukrainians would seriously weaken the Russians. The opposite has happened and now the Europeans feel they have to rearm i order to be a "serious" player, but they do not really have a military-industrial complex of any size, so they have to buy most of the weapons from the US. Many of the crucial parts for submarines (Germany and France), airplanes (France and Sweden) or frigates (Britain) are made in the US or based on US patents. In order to avoid a split in the EU they now want to use the Bismarckian strategy of "Blood and Iron" to unite the union, but it is the Ukrainians who shed their blood and the US providing the iron.
Yes, the Western animosity towards Russian pre-dates the cold war by centuries and did not really abate with the collapse of Soviet communism. Europe has neither the will, economic or industrial base to support Ukraine's war effort in any meaningful way, yet encourages the people of Ukraine to lose territory and people in a futile conflict. I don't know if it's surprising or not, but virtually all of the people I know who are liberal or claim to be left, support this insane policy.
Hi Scott,
The animosity you refer to comes from the British Empire. The EU is not Europe. There are many countries with very different histories, family languages. Some have strong historical/cultural links, more or less conflictual. What are the links between, let's say, Portugal and Estonia?
War in Ukraine is a war for business, Blackrock and Co, even if one can't dismiss some historical/cultural features which are manipulated by Fink, Rotschild, and other psychopaths.
There is a unified European entity that could exist properly and prosperously, but it is in the hands of people you wouldn't allow in charge of an artificial plant.
I agree with your analysis but I would put it in simpler terms. Neoliberalism is a slow poison and Europe (and the US) are turning to fascist militarism as a means to escape this slow death. This will succeed, but will result in the more rapid death of mutually-assured destruction through high-tech military conflict.
I remember irish newspapers printing stories of greek hairdressers retiring when they were 45 or some crap like that. It was awful. The EU is ok shaky ground and its not russians fault.
This may be so simple as to sound stupid, but maybe a lot of people in the EU don't trust that Putin fella any more in 2025. Nor do they trust Trump. Maybe that's what keeping the European project alive - learning to fend for themselves. (I wish _my_ leaders had the capacity.)
https://www.programmablemutter.com/p/america-has-identified-its-final
The (primarily Zionist or pro-Zionist) oligarch owned mainstream media in the US and EU are intent on convincing the gullible populations that Russian hordes (in this case "Evil Putler") are simultaneously willing and capable to both overrun Europe but also unable to gain any significant territory in Ukraine.
Does it really have to do with Zionism? Maybe it's a simple as not trusting Putin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_Russia-related_deaths_since_2022
LOL now show us the Wikipedia entry on suspicious deaths in the USA.
Cough...cough...Charlie Kirk....Boeing whistleblowers....JFK, RFK, MLK....Gary Webb.....Danny Casolaro.....
But speaking of "Putin", anyone heard from the Skripals lately?
Tom: do try to keep up. We're talking about European countries next door to Russia, some with a big historical memory of being fully or partially annexed by Russia's predecessor state, the USSR. Trump's foolishness and authoritarianism, while detestable, is an ocean away from them. Putin's Russia is not.
And there's something tragicomic and memorable about how many people under Putin die by falling out of windows. Maybe folk in Finland and Estonia give a bigger damn about that than about Charlie Kirk.
the idea that Russia would "invade"it's European neighboring countries is ludicrous. Russia has a big demographic problem. It has the largest land ownership on earth, thus larger border to control with a limited amount of manpower... It's population has been turned into materialist consumers thus lacking the ideological motivation for conquest...
Please, start thinking with these notions... Putin is not Sauron and the 5th column is very powerful...
Seems that it's you who wasn't keeping up in the beginning. The modern Russian Federation is not the USSR. It wasn't formed explicitly in an agreement with the western powers who were the signatories to any agreements and treaties that GRANTED the USSR de-facto control over the former Soviet bloc/Warsaw Pact countries. Putin, as much as you may hate or despise him does NOT have ambitions of expanding the Russian Federation into any European countries, including Ukraine, which they only invaded in response to ~7yrs of war being waged on those provinces in the east by the US/NATO backed post-coup government(s) of Ukraine in Kyiv. Zelensky was elected on a peace platform and once in office he was forced by powerful right-wing anti-Russia factions, including likely CIA assets, to continue the siege on those oblasts, whose pleas for Russian intervention were actually ignored by Putin's government for those ~7yrs. Putin's government came forward with numerous proposals for a resolution to this conflict that entailed pre-2022 Ukraine keeping full territorial integrity, minus Crimea whose people had unanimously voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia. That was the non-starter for the US and UK puppet masters intent on eventual war with or regime change in Russia (to be followed by the usual austerity and privatization with profits and interests on new debt to flow into 'western' hands), so they rebuffed the Russians more than once BEFORE the "SMO" began and then again in the April 2022 timeframe.
But you knew all this already, didn't you.
Regardless of what you say, folk in the EU don't trust that Putin fella any more in 2025. For example, Sweden - despite having a tradition of neutrality that precedes WWII - decided to join NATO after Russia invaded Ukraine.
Maybe it is as simple as countries who invade other countries are bad. Ever considered that, Tom?
"And there's something tragicomic and memorable about how many people under Putin die by falling out of windows. Maybe folk in Finland and Estonia give a bigger damn about that than about Charlie Kirk."
There are plenty of conspiracy theories in Russia and about those deaths too, is my point. With a little bit of, you know, *actual* research, I could find counterstories to probably half or 2/3 of those Wikipedia entries for "suspicious deaths" - As I noted previously, have you seen the Skripals lately? They were also among the list of purported Putin assassination targets. Or off the top of my head, how about recent developments in the case of Roman Protasevich or any credible allegations that Navalny was murdered in prison? How familiar are you with the Magnitsky case?
Tom, let's be realistic at that point. Russia is not a paradise; those who happen to be a thorn can have fateful destiny. Same in France or most countries.
Respect
Peter,
it is not at all about "trust" in Putin... the interest of all nations in bondage into the EU is to have good relation with Moscow. The interest of Russians is to have good business relations with each nation state in the European continent.
Maybe here is an irrational element in that war, that is the revenge of crazy Zionists of Ukrainian/Russian/Baltic origin...
In France, the media is obviously Zionist owned.
Bugey, my good sir: as some who has had friends and relatives live in the EU, I instinctively do not trust the opinion of anyone who uses the sentence "in bondage into the EU" with a straight face.
This is an interesting analysis by Vitaliy Leiben; if this link fails it's slso on his Telegram channel
https://rusistina.ru/articles/moderator-glory?fbclid=IwdGRjcAOhUWZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeAq_NKn9vHh2TBpJeGFvibJd17tt-n182ZsmGRzaEosll8GlN6DpLaIEZRN0_aem_QdFnRHT5qS2IT0uZge_Erw
The looters who "invested" in pre-war Ukraine are also among the people most dedicated to prolonging this war and recouping some of their money over the long term. With the country almost completely wrecked and/or reliant on "western" money now, it won't even matter if some of those investments fall into newly Russian controlled territory. The remaining Ukrainian population (and those who will be born later) are a sufficiently lucrative "market" for various privatization rape-and-pillage schemes including austerity and debt bondage for one and for all.