"For the most part, in this tropic whaling life, a sublime uneventfulness invests you; you hear no news; read no gazettes; extras with startling accounts of commonplaces never delude you into unnecessary excitements; you hear of no domestic afflictions; bankrupt securities; falls of stocks;...."
Wondering if you've ever read any of John Zerzan's work. One of the ideas that I've heard him discuss is how tech feeds on the fact that were social creatures except its mediating that experience that otherwise would be immediate. So any action taken thru that mediation is going to be rendered mute unless it leads to real world action. anarcho-primitivism might be an extreme answer to this but I don't know.
No haven't read him but sounds right — this tech exploits our need for social contact and then sets itself up a middle man, extracting value not just from us but from everything that needs to be created to set up this middle man technology.
I prefer to refer to Rosa Luxemburg's Accumulation of Capital. She posits a theory capital must invade previously non-market societies and social relations to foster accumulation. It started with the seizure of the commons in 17th century England and the contemporaneous colonization of the Americas. Now it takes the form of colonization of even the most intimate of social relations, i.e. dating sites indeed the whole range of social media.
That's interesting. I dont know of her. I guess you could equate tech to capital pretty easily and it makes total sense. Zerzan also had some correspondence with ted kaczynski, which not condoning what he did but I find it's hard to disagree with his manifesto. and of course there are conspiracy theories that his extremism made it harder to question the emerging technological society.
Red Rosa was in my opinion was the most truly revolutionary person who has lived before Che Guevara,
From Wikipedia
Luxemburg's major theoretical work was The Accumulation of Capital (1913), which she presented as a contribution to the economic clarification of imperialism.[210] In it, she argued that capitalism was driven by an inherent contradiction: it could not realise the surplus value generated within its own closed system. To survive and continue to accumulate, it was therefore compelled to expand into and exploit pre-capitalist spheres, both within its home countries (e.g., the peasantry and artisan classes) and, more importantly, in colonies abroad.[211][133][135] This ceaseless, competitive drive for control of non-capitalist markets and resources was, for Luxemburg, the economic foundation of imperialism and militarism.[212]
This economic analysis underpinned her political stance against imperialism and war. She saw imperialism not as a mere policy choice but as the final, global stage of capitalism, which would inevitably lead to ever more destructive wars and ultimately to "barbarism" unless it was overthrown by international socialist revolution.[213][162] This conviction was the basis for her consistent internationalism and her critique of nationalism, which she saw as a bourgeois ideology used to divide the working class and tie it to the interests of its own ruling class.[37][18] Her opposition to the "right of nations to self-determination" as a universal slogan, which put her in direct conflict with Lenin, stemmed from this belief. She argued that in the age of imperialism, such a right was a hollow phrase that often served as a cover for the interests of competing imperialist powers.[169][214]
Almost 3 decades here. I made what could be considered one of the first social media pages ever... Personal pages for big name fashion models. One of them in 1997 was in Thailand doing a shoot for Vogue and her mom emailed me saying that she " was very depressed and totally she feels like the only thing she has is her website". What a preview of things to come
I am what you'd call an internet junkie. Unlike you, I don't see anything crazy about my behavior. Quite the opposite. My problem is with those who put their heads in the sand, using the lame excuse that they have no power anyway, so. . . I see this as a way of handing over power to those are informed and also have an agenda and will use their superior knowledge to manipulate and lie to the uninformed, as the mainstream media do.
I spend a great deal of time following events in Ukraine, an activity you specifically call out as a useless waste of time. Well, I beg to differ. My country started this war and it is therefore on me to keep track of what sort of shit my tax dollars are paying for. I use what I know to convince others to see things my way, and guess what—it works! People have come to respect my views because my predictions invariably come true!
Here's an example: I just learned that fiber optics technology has revolutionized drone warfare in Ukraine and will determine the outcome. The encircled city of Povrosk looks certain to fall to the Russians. Ukraine will then collapse.
How many Americans know this? How many still think some sort of deal will end this war? Or that Germany will launch Taurus missiles at Moscow?
How many actually think Europe can turn the tide against Russia? Merz doesn't. This is all political theater. THE WAR IS OVER!!!!
As to your contention that a person can't do anything else while being engaged in such information-gathering, I often listen to podcasts while doing mindless chores like tending my garden and my large flock of laying hens. I give away the eggs my hens lay. Cleaning up their poop doesn't require intellectual bandwidth. I can do two and sometimes three things at one time. For those who are into fitness, what's wrong with listening to news while working out? I wish more people did!!!!
You are proposing an all- or-nothing solution that is simply absurd. We each have to find our own way. But I, for one, am thrilled when friends thank me for sending them something I read or heard online that sheds light on issues the mainstream media for the most part either spin or just ignore. You are one of those podcasters. You can't have it both ways.
you hit on one of the things: one can either keep reading and listening to online content to stay informed or let off the online gas and allow the fog of bullshit media to close in until they are just another know-nothing npc - this doesn't require addiction level all-day-everyday toilet style commitment, but it definitely requires internet and probably some social media (ha I thought about mentioning substack in my other comment)
Couldn't agree with you more. "All the information and no power," "no power to act," has turned some of us "into area experts," often results in "psychological destabilization," and activates, accelerates, and amplifies our tendencies toward "OCD."
So, if the social media/internet is largely psychologically destabilizing, what are the type of things/steps that might lead to more collective agency?
Some of it may have to do with sitting in a real room with real live people--I vaguely remember way back in the 1960s that this actually worked!
Also, If you have the chance, check out a new book by Paul Kingsnorth, coming out this September called "Against the Machine" (a revision and consolidation of essays he's written over the past 2 years).
Isn't the problem at the end of the day capitalism? What you're talking about is just one more aspect of it. Keep us docile, pacified through social media. In a different world, we could have similar technology, but not have others profit off of it.
I also dislike the fact that I, and others like me, are held to a remarkably different standard to those who paint themselves as "optimists," which typically means "people that agree with what the market wishes were true." Critics are continually badgered, prodded, poked, mocked, and jeered at for not automatically aligning with the idea that generative AI will be this massive industry, constantly having to prove themselves, as if somehow there's something malevolent or craven about criticism, that critics "do this for clicks" or "to be a contrarian."
I’m tired of hearing about “powerful AI” that is actually crap, and I’m tired of being told the future is here while having the world’s least-useful most-expensive cloud software shoved down my throat.
social media and info-glut are definitely a net negative for addicts, just like opiates, and it's definitely addictive, just like opiates - many of us are not addicts (the doomscrolling routine you describe in the beginning, I'm skeptical of how widespread that type of obsession is, I never do that, I don't know anyone who does unless it's their dark secret) - but still looking forward to how this develops
"For the most part, in this tropic whaling life, a sublime uneventfulness invests you; you hear no news; read no gazettes; extras with startling accounts of commonplaces never delude you into unnecessary excitements; you hear of no domestic afflictions; bankrupt securities; falls of stocks;...."
Moby Dick
Wondering if you've ever read any of John Zerzan's work. One of the ideas that I've heard him discuss is how tech feeds on the fact that were social creatures except its mediating that experience that otherwise would be immediate. So any action taken thru that mediation is going to be rendered mute unless it leads to real world action. anarcho-primitivism might be an extreme answer to this but I don't know.
No haven't read him but sounds right — this tech exploits our need for social contact and then sets itself up a middle man, extracting value not just from us but from everything that needs to be created to set up this middle man technology.
I prefer to refer to Rosa Luxemburg's Accumulation of Capital. She posits a theory capital must invade previously non-market societies and social relations to foster accumulation. It started with the seizure of the commons in 17th century England and the contemporaneous colonization of the Americas. Now it takes the form of colonization of even the most intimate of social relations, i.e. dating sites indeed the whole range of social media.
This is truly frightening..
https://www.mytwintiers.com/news-cat/national-news/teens-say-they-are-turning-to-ai-for-advice-friendship-and-to-get-out-of-t
That's interesting. I dont know of her. I guess you could equate tech to capital pretty easily and it makes total sense. Zerzan also had some correspondence with ted kaczynski, which not condoning what he did but I find it's hard to disagree with his manifesto. and of course there are conspiracy theories that his extremism made it harder to question the emerging technological society.
Red Rosa was in my opinion was the most truly revolutionary person who has lived before Che Guevara,
From Wikipedia
Luxemburg's major theoretical work was The Accumulation of Capital (1913), which she presented as a contribution to the economic clarification of imperialism.[210] In it, she argued that capitalism was driven by an inherent contradiction: it could not realise the surplus value generated within its own closed system. To survive and continue to accumulate, it was therefore compelled to expand into and exploit pre-capitalist spheres, both within its home countries (e.g., the peasantry and artisan classes) and, more importantly, in colonies abroad.[211][133][135] This ceaseless, competitive drive for control of non-capitalist markets and resources was, for Luxemburg, the economic foundation of imperialism and militarism.[212]
This economic analysis underpinned her political stance against imperialism and war. She saw imperialism not as a mere policy choice but as the final, global stage of capitalism, which would inevitably lead to ever more destructive wars and ultimately to "barbarism" unless it was overthrown by international socialist revolution.[213][162] This conviction was the basis for her consistent internationalism and her critique of nationalism, which she saw as a bourgeois ideology used to divide the working class and tie it to the interests of its own ruling class.[37][18] Her opposition to the "right of nations to self-determination" as a universal slogan, which put her in direct conflict with Lenin, stemmed from this belief. She argued that in the age of imperialism, such a right was a hollow phrase that often served as a cover for the interests of competing imperialist powers.[169][214]
Almost 3 decades here. I made what could be considered one of the first social media pages ever... Personal pages for big name fashion models. One of them in 1997 was in Thailand doing a shoot for Vogue and her mom emailed me saying that she " was very depressed and totally she feels like the only thing she has is her website". What a preview of things to come
Wow… a blast from the future.
I am what you'd call an internet junkie. Unlike you, I don't see anything crazy about my behavior. Quite the opposite. My problem is with those who put their heads in the sand, using the lame excuse that they have no power anyway, so. . . I see this as a way of handing over power to those are informed and also have an agenda and will use their superior knowledge to manipulate and lie to the uninformed, as the mainstream media do.
I spend a great deal of time following events in Ukraine, an activity you specifically call out as a useless waste of time. Well, I beg to differ. My country started this war and it is therefore on me to keep track of what sort of shit my tax dollars are paying for. I use what I know to convince others to see things my way, and guess what—it works! People have come to respect my views because my predictions invariably come true!
Here's an example: I just learned that fiber optics technology has revolutionized drone warfare in Ukraine and will determine the outcome. The encircled city of Povrosk looks certain to fall to the Russians. Ukraine will then collapse.
How many Americans know this? How many still think some sort of deal will end this war? Or that Germany will launch Taurus missiles at Moscow?
How many actually think Europe can turn the tide against Russia? Merz doesn't. This is all political theater. THE WAR IS OVER!!!!
As to your contention that a person can't do anything else while being engaged in such information-gathering, I often listen to podcasts while doing mindless chores like tending my garden and my large flock of laying hens. I give away the eggs my hens lay. Cleaning up their poop doesn't require intellectual bandwidth. I can do two and sometimes three things at one time. For those who are into fitness, what's wrong with listening to news while working out? I wish more people did!!!!
You are proposing an all- or-nothing solution that is simply absurd. We each have to find our own way. But I, for one, am thrilled when friends thank me for sending them something I read or heard online that sheds light on issues the mainstream media for the most part either spin or just ignore. You are one of those podcasters. You can't have it both ways.
you hit on one of the things: one can either keep reading and listening to online content to stay informed or let off the online gas and allow the fog of bullshit media to close in until they are just another know-nothing npc - this doesn't require addiction level all-day-everyday toilet style commitment, but it definitely requires internet and probably some social media (ha I thought about mentioning substack in my other comment)
That's exactly right. The fog of bullshit media is always closing in, even on those of us who are vigilant.
Couldn't agree with you more. "All the information and no power," "no power to act," has turned some of us "into area experts," often results in "psychological destabilization," and activates, accelerates, and amplifies our tendencies toward "OCD."
So, if the social media/internet is largely psychologically destabilizing, what are the type of things/steps that might lead to more collective agency?
Some of it may have to do with sitting in a real room with real live people--I vaguely remember way back in the 1960s that this actually worked!
Also, If you have the chance, check out a new book by Paul Kingsnorth, coming out this September called "Against the Machine" (a revision and consolidation of essays he's written over the past 2 years).
As AI consumes the planet's water and power, I like to call it Technonecrophilia.
https://thetechbubble.substack.com/p/this-silicon-valley-stuffll-get-you?r=2gytk&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
yes that's another aspect of the vampire castle -- it drains us of life and drains the planet of life too. they're connected!
You couldn't have summed it better.
Isn't the problem at the end of the day capitalism? What you're talking about is just one more aspect of it. Keep us docile, pacified through social media. In a different world, we could have similar technology, but not have others profit off of it.
Yasha keeping it real per usual
The Hater's Guide To The AI Bubble
I also dislike the fact that I, and others like me, are held to a remarkably different standard to those who paint themselves as "optimists," which typically means "people that agree with what the market wishes were true." Critics are continually badgered, prodded, poked, mocked, and jeered at for not automatically aligning with the idea that generative AI will be this massive industry, constantly having to prove themselves, as if somehow there's something malevolent or craven about criticism, that critics "do this for clicks" or "to be a contrarian."
I’m tired of hearing about “powerful AI” that is actually crap, and I’m tired of being told the future is here while having the world’s least-useful most-expensive cloud software shoved down my throat.
I don't disagree but not paying attention doesn't seem to be the right answer. The point is that being informed isn't the end goal.
who says not to pay attention?
Wasn't this whole thing about being informed is pointless because we're powerless to do anything about it? What am I missing?
I like Ernst Jünger's concept of the forest passage, seems relevant to this https://ia801408.us.archive.org/26/items/ernst-junger-the-forest-passage-1951-2013/Ernst%20J%C3%BCnger%20-%20The%20Forest%20Passage%20%281951-2013%29.pdf
social media and info-glut are definitely a net negative for addicts, just like opiates, and it's definitely addictive, just like opiates - many of us are not addicts (the doomscrolling routine you describe in the beginning, I'm skeptical of how widespread that type of obsession is, I never do that, I don't know anyone who does unless it's their dark secret) - but still looking forward to how this develops
indeed, info is not power, only power is power