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Barbara's avatar

I can't tell you how helpful your writings and podcasts have been for me the last few months. I have appreciated your perspectives over the past few years--and sometimes felt compelled to thank you for your (both of you) rare, searching kind of honestly, including intellectual honesty. Now I appreciate it more than ever. Thanks so much..

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Henrik S. Fiske's avatar

I'm browsing random stuff, so not completely sure about the timeline. But the last time I heard your takes on Finland, it was in some podcast episode where you both had this take on why some Finns are these blobby doughfaces and the rest look more Scandinavian or something, then pulling this so edgy, self-deprecating and totally satirical fake-eugenicist/Nazi hypothesis out of your asses about the Swede as the handsome Übermensch dominating the formless Finnish gnome. I didn't mind the stupid joke that much. But as I recall it, it was too much to listen to Yasha confidently mansplain about how Finland gained its independence from Sweden (!!), and then some stuff about the Finland Swede minority that made little sense. Glad you got the independence right this time. 😂

As for the substance, there's actually a reeeally tiny grain of truth to it, although more than anything, the whole thing probably has more to do with Finns carrying a higher share of ancestry from hunter-gatherers, both European and Siberian, who probably were prone to binge-eating and were built to bothinsulaye themselves as well as store the fat more evenly for the long winters (just think about fat distribution and facial features in Arctic people like the Inuit). Plump faces, along with some traits and cultural norms that especially still a few decades ago almost resembled some more recently modernized hunter-gatherer populations, like binge-drinking preferences and alcoholism, propensity to gain weight, silent demeanor... Those I have come to associate with Eastern and Northern Finns in particular. The land there is barely or often not at all arable, so even the HG lifestyle survived there for quite long among the Sámi. Even with Finns' more versatile sustenance toolkit, the areas have staid very sparsely populated. Genetically, there's a big faultline running through Finland NW to SE: just try to draw the line south enough, slicing only the peninsular part in half and leaving Lapland and its southern vicinity on the eastern side.

This kind of ancestry has been less prevalent in Western and Southern Finland, the arable parts basically, which have almost always been more populous and went through a couple of instances of more significant North-Germanic/Swedish gene flow. By far the more significant one of those dates to about 1800 BC, after which the coastal areas in particular, and also the more-arable SW corner and the Western flatlands were occupied to a large degree for a long time by the Scandinavian master race.

That is, until the Finnish tribes with a language with relatively recent roots somewhere in Yakutia (or maybe more south near Lake Baikal, it's still disputed a bit) and 5%+ of very distinct East-Siberian ancestry (the rest doesn't differ much at all from the neighboring Scandis and Balts too) started crossing in increasing numbers from the Estonian side of the Bay around 500 AD or so, going straight for the best land in the SW and mixing with the Scandinavian inhabitation. Or mixing especially with the women: the rapid expansion of the Uralics — the name of the whole language family, unlike Finno-Ugric (or Ugoric...😁) — which was likely related to the Seima-Turbino phenomenon at first, was curiously heavily male-mediated pretty much all the way. Apparently much the same happened in Finland when the Finns start mixing with the North-Germanics in Western Finland, and later with their Sámi linguistic cousins. At least one thing is certain: they brought no women with any Siberian ancestry with them but rather opted for the Germanic and other local ladies, and en route, maybe even some Indo-Iranian chicks (who at this point would have looked broadly European, maybe a bit Slavic), since they were engaged in active bronze trading and hustling with them during the Seima Turbino period when drought and climate abnormalities forced these pastoralists closer to the forests and river routes of the Siberian taiga. The paternal haplogroup I1, associated in Finland with the 1800 BC Germanic expansion is still quite common in Western Finland, so it's not that the Finns wanted, could or did wipe out the North-German male lines wholesale:m — something the Indo-European themselves have at least attempted to do regularly theoughout prehistory. Looking at the scarce DNA findings from around this time, it looks like the west and SE coasts of Finland were more like busy places of trade and interaction by people from the Estonian and Swedish side, with at least Finns, North-Germanics and also the Sámi maintaining a presence merely on Finnish soil.

The other influx of Swedish genes came about mostly during the Middle Ages, and again to the West and SW coasts mostly. This was already the Kingdom of Sweden, so they kept their language. Actually, up to late 1800s at minimim (yes, even during the autonomous period under Russian rule) Swedish was the language of the elites, whether you were originally of Swedish stock or not. Relatively small populations don't have people to waste, so the Finnish side of the kingdom at least was comparatively meritocratic for that age: e.g. military hoovered talented Finns who could rise in the hierarchy, get knighted and sliden into the elite perhaps changing their name if not already done.

Even the biggest proponents of a Finnish nation and language during the mid- to late 1800s' "Fennomania" were natively Swedish-speaking, had Swedish names and so on. About names btw: Finnish and Swedish (last) names are easy to tell apart, but you shouldn't make any assumptions based on them. Except for some residents of certain rural Swedish-speaking communes on the coasts, all Finland Swedes (about 3–4% of the population in total) are basically bilingual. However, many people with Swedish last names can't actually speak Swedish above the general rudimentary "school Swedish".

So no, we weren't subjugated by the well-featured Swedish Aryan elites. You were probably to Helsinki where you can see all of the regional variation because everyone moves to the only real metropolitan area at least once on their lives. But you might detect a difference of proportion in the genetically Western and more stable SW regions and cities, Turku being the biggest. And more Finland Swedes and Swedish names in general.

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